Telling Better Stories
What does “telling better stories” mean for you? What does “better” mean to you?
Kim: To me I think telling it means telling the stories of people that are traditionally forgotten or ignored. Better means more authentic (not that other stories aren’t)? Not filtered? People choose stories that are more palpable and then those stories become the representations of a collective experience. It reminds me of the success stories of POC being used as a way to say that institutional oppression doesn’t exist. Or the idea of people having to submit stories about “struggles” they experienced when applying for scholarships. If it’s too traumatic it’s like YIKES too much but if it isn’t traumatic enough, you aren’t worthy of getting that scholarship.
Courtney: I think you highlight an important point when you bring up this tension that exists in popular and mainstream culture, this balance that is expected between sharing struggles and hardships as a way to “prove” oppression but not so much that it is off putting and unpalatable to the broader audience–as though such stories are even meant for their consumption or comfort. Do you imagine your research and the practice of telling better stories as a method or platform to interrogate this expectation or the fragility of comfort?
Kim: Yes! I was recently on a scholarship committee and just thought it was so weird that the question was being asked. Some of the stories were so sad and I can’t imagine the trauma that people had to relive when writing their essays.
I am not sure what my expectations are for my research to be honest. Maybe not directly focused on interrogating that expectation but I am sure that it will come up. For anyone that wants to do the work of better storytelling, it definitely seems to be a common thread. I feel so conflicted with sharing the stories because while I want people to know so they can actually LEARN it definitely gives off the “scholarship committee” vibe to me.
Courtney: Perhaps, to build off a point you make later on in this conversation, you can remedy this by sharing more stories that both share the struggles and joys and being biracial or multiracial? To paint an image that it isn’t all bad and there are a whole lot of good things to focus on as well?
Kim: Yes! This is definitely something I try to keep in mind. A lot of work done is always so negative so I also want to show the beauty too.
Courtney: I think the idea that there are better stories to tell inherently implies that are incomplete or somewhat inaccurate stories that exist. And this isn’t to say that those stories were developed with sinister intentions or that those who perpetuate such stories do so maliciously. But I do think the practice challenges generalization and summarization which often distorts, misappropriates, or otherwise alters the original intention of the oftentimes complex stories that are being told. So, for me, “better” means more genuine and authentic through complexity. Very rarely are some of the stories that we hold simple or clean or clear; more often they are contextualized by numerous different factors that influence the situation, factors which are more true to the realities and complications of life.
Kim: I do think a lot of stories are created with somewhat malicious intentions depending on the goal of the story. Like they sent anthropologists to “observe” Mexican people before the Mexican American War and through those ethnographies, the justification for the American colonization (in comparison to the Spanish colonization) was made.
The complexity part is intriguing. Can you expand on that?
Courtney: No I absolutely agree, Kimmy, that there are definitely some narratives that do hold those intentions and people who do circulate them with maliciousness. Perhaps it’s my own whiteness that leaves me naively optimistic and hopes that this isn’t always the case but in reference to your question of complexity, I’m thinking back to Professor Harewood and the assignment that has spurred this conversation. I’m thinking about how many factors contextualize our stories and alter their impacts, factors which are heavily connected with multiple different systems and oppressions, and the ways that these make our stories complex. For instance, I know your research is focusing on the stories of folx who hold multiple racial identities and it’s not as simple as either experiencing oppression or not. As you and our peers have discussed, oftentimes holding such identities can mean experiencing racism, as well as prejudice from the communities of color they are a part of. This, to me, is a more complex and genuine story than the traditional narrative than multracial folx only experiencing racism or not. Does that make sense or answer your question? I’m not meaning complex as in difficult or hard or complicated but more so as a way to illustrate how interconnected different systems can be.
Kim: I don’t think it’s naive at all to be optimistic! We only know what we know because of what was taught to us as young people. Back in Tennessee they talk about Davy Crockett being a hero and an absolutely dashing figure to admire. It wasn’t until college that I learned another perspective. It’s something that is continually passed down but eventually something breaks up that cycle so we can learn even more. And your comment definitely makes sense! Everyone just wants to box things up but honestly most of the time that doesn’t work! That’s probably one of the most important aspects I have learned.
What is the traditional story you believe is being told? How do you imagine your research telling a better story?
Kim: As in a stereotypical story? I think maybe success stories like President Obama or Opera are the stories that get told over and over. Its the testament of the American Dream and that the United States is so great. I think telling the stories of the majority group which is the stories of those in marginalized groups. Like the poor and working class are a majority but rather than telling those stories we talk about how Opera did it so anyone can.
Kim: As for my own research, I think the experiences of biracial/multiracial people are super unique and also the population is small but it is growing. And their unique experiences are just as valid.
Courtney: I’m not sure the specific nuances of your research, but I’d be interested in hearing more about how you imagine your research to share those unique experiences! Because different communities of color experience racism and prejudice in different way, right? So is your research trying to more generally advocate for multiracial and biracial folx’s stories to be heard or are you focusing in your scope a little more to share some of the ways in which certain identities experience their lives?
Kim: Absolutely! This has been a struggle in the multiracial community in general. Any research done seems to get slapped on applied to any and all multiracial people. There seems to be a semi decent amount (still small) research done on multiracial Black/White individuals but you and I (and many others of course) know that the experiences of someone who is Asian vs Black vs White are VASTLY different. The antiblackness that a Black/white person would experience is not the same experience as someone who is Asian/white. It is definitely frustrating to read/see. I will say though that more recent research is starting to address that their work done is not a representation of the community as a whole so that is some progress right?
I think my main focus is that the experiences of a biracial Black (or Asian, or Latinx or etc) individual is not the same experience as a person who is considered fully Black (having 2 parents of the same race and ethnic background). Being constantly misidentified or having what you perceive as your identity stripped from you arbitrarily is incredibly stressful based on my own experiences (and others that I have listened to). So I want to make the voice louder and noticed to help other people have the ability to be more comfortable in how they identify.
Courtney: For me and my research, I’m interrogating the practice of grounding. A somewhat recent phenomenon, grounding has been praised in social justice activism spaces as a way for practitioners to plant ourselves firmly in our sense of self and re-align who we are and who we want to be, presumably as a way for activists to understand their histories and be more capable in trajecting their futures. However, the practice has been relatively uninterrogated thus far and has points of tension which require a more honest critique of the impact of the practice. Especially when grounding is incorporated into social justice spaces with participants who majorly reside within traditionally and historically marginalized spaces, there is often trauma that can make it difficult or, at times, even impossible for practitioners to engage with their pasts and leave little ability to ground in the present. This, then, raises the question of how vital the practice of grounding is for social justice activism. If it truly is critical to the growth and development of activists, what does it mean for those who may not be able to engage in the practice? Do they still have a role in such spaces and, if so, how are these positions altered by one’s ability to become grounded? How might we make the practice more accessible to people? How might we imagine inventing or creating a ground where they may be none? These are just some of the questions my research is looking into and I hope it simply begins a conversation which refuses to uncritically adopt a practice which may ostracize or marginalize certain folx–to remind practitioners that rarely are our pasts easily or readily available to connect with and learn from.
Kim: I’m thinking about what you said and what I tell people when these sort of questions come up is that you should do what you can. I always feel sad when the sentiment of not enough pervades the SJM. This makes me think about how while some people have the right goal in mind, the road to get there is brutal and unforgiving to not only themselves but also the people around them.
Courtney: I share your sentiment, Kimmy. I think, especially when we’re talking about traditionally marginalized communities and folx who have already been beaten down by dominant societal norms, it’s really sad and disheartening to see them perpetuate it and sad to see folx who already don’t feel good enough be shamed even more. And sometimes I think this is more prominent or intentional than others. There are definitely toxic activists (at what point does one stop being considered an activist if they are being harmful towards others?) who actively berate folx but then I think there are less intentional ways of doing this as well, such as the practice of grounding. I don’t think it was developed to intentionally exclude anyone but without a conversation about how to create or invent a ground to be grounded in, I think it can definitely discourage folx from feeling as though they have a place.
Kim: Ugh! That is such a good question! Who determines that toxicity? Depending on how a person can identify (for example: white) are they actually experiencing fragility? Or where is the line between white saviorism and being an ally? This definitely confuses me sometimes to be honest. Can you give an example of how you think grounding would be helpful?
Courtney: I think grounding can be helpful at a certain point in folx’s journeys but I think, if pushed on them too soon, it can be a bit intimidating and this, of course, I believe is kind of determinate on how complicated one’s relationship is with their past and community and kinships. For me, I don’t necessarily always feel comfortable or safe to be myself with my family and a lot of my queer friends have ostracized me due to biphobic/panphobic stigmas so I don’t really have family or community to feel comfortable to show up and be my full self in. Where and who do I go to to seek guidance and council, to re-align who I am and who I want to be? Who do I seek out when I need help being held accountable? I think, if you do have a sense of community or kinship, grounding can be extremely useful. I think it gives you a place to plant roots, to gain nourishment from and grow from and stand tall during weathering storms. But I think it can sometimes make those who don’t know where to ground themselves feel behind in their development at times.
Kim: Your story blows my mind but at the same time I am not surprised. I wonder if these are perpetuated feelings of also being ostracized being passed down to you because your peers were also ostracized or if something else is at play here? It’s such a difficult journey to be on. Who can help us?
What do you hope your “better story” inspires? What do you hope your research will accomplish? What impact do you hope it will have?
Kim: I hope that they inspire people to remember others than those that just identify like them. I want to be able to tell not only better stories but also MORE stories. I want people to realize that many stories that are being told now are the easiest stories to digest.
Courtney: Easiest to digest and, I would add, easiest to perpetuate or generate the ideal image for certain agendas and hegemonic powers. I just recently saw an article that was asking what the yellow tint was dominating the world of cinema and illuminating how using yellow tint over non-western countries is a way to perpetuate a racist imagining of such areas and communities. Sometimes I feel as though the narratives that get the most traction are the ones that are either creating an excuse or “out” for dominant powers (such as your example of idolizing Opra or Obama as a way of denying racism) or narratives which already perpetuate pre-existing discourses.
Kim: Oh my gosh yes! And wow I didn’t know that about film. Colors setting the mood is definitely throughout the media. It really shows the power of the media like when they used to put flashes of candy bars into movies to make people crave the food so they would buy it. You used to see this a lot in children’s shows too I think. They “other” characters by making them the bad guys like the Native American characters in those old cartoons.
Courtney: I can’t find the original article I read but this one does a pretty good job of explaining it too! (Sherman, 2020)
Kim: This is great! Thank You!
Courtney: I may have already kind of answered this question in my previous response but I just hope my research and the complex stories I share in it reminds folx that we’re not all at a point in our personal journey or recovery to connect with or learn from our pasts, especially when they might be traumatic or harmful to us. I think grounding is a really great practice for folx who have reached such a point that they can use it as a way to better understand who they are and who they want to be but it can be a bit ostracizing to others who may not be able to participate in the practice. For me, when I first learned about grounding, I really questioned whether or not social justice was something I could participate in or engage with. I thought I wasn’t healthy enough, wasn’t far enough along in my personal journey of recovery, to be in such spaces which was a pretty major blow to my already frail self-esteem and it didn’t help that the practice was preached to me by my mentors. And I don’t want the discourse to discourage others or make them feel as though social justice spaces don’t have a place for them so I guess I’m just trying to let others know that we can re-imagine the practice to work with our needs and to create new ground together.
Kim: Grounding seems to be a beautiful place to start. If you’re doing more harm to others (not in a white fragility sort of way) in the name of SJM are you really doing anything at all? Everyone thinks they should be the next MLKjr but being the support and working behind the scenes is just as important.
Courtney: When you mention working behind the scenes, are you referring to the internal unpacking and re-learning that we all have to do to combat our internalized beliefs and understandings?
Kim: I was thinking more along the lines of the unseen labor like organizing, making the flyers, talking to people in passing. But I also think on an individual level everyone should always continually be learning and combatting our own internalized oppressions and expressions.
What kind of stories do you want to tell?
Kim: I want to tell the stories centered around identity and how the agency around identity creation is taken away from many multiracial people. I want to also talk about experiences because of the current climate that we are living in.
Courtney: Are you hoping to focus on specific stories or create a more general dialogue around the need for more stories from biracial and multiracial people? Can you speak a little bit more about what about the current climate we’re in and why it’s so important for the stories of biracial and multiracial folx to be told now?
Kim: For times sake I think I will focus on my own story. I mean compared to people doing graduate work on the Phd level, they have more time (hopefully) and resources (also hopefully). We just have our 1 year to get things done. Actually less than a year haha. What I am thinking is that I will interview my sister and then myself just to showcase how even people growing up in the same household can have different identities.
I think it’s important because for one it’s a growing population! As for the second reason, we still live in a heightened state of people being very anti POC in general. This can have a major impact on how and why people identify the way that they do or maybe that they feel like they need to hide a part of themselves in order to be protected from mental harm and/or physical harm.
I had a friend who is half taiwanese someone thought he was Mexican and his response was “I am actually Asian” in a certain way and he told me after a LOT of reflection on why he said it like that he was horrified at himself that he was saying it to defend himself. The person that thought he was Mexican told him to go back to Mexico because he was speaking Spanish. The whole situation is f*cked up and complicated for a myriad of reasons but I also think this is a great example on how people use identity to protect themselves.
Courtney: I want to tell the complex stories! The research I’m trying to do right now, it can make me feel pretty vulnerable at times because of the way in which I personally arrived at those questions but I’m just trying to figure out who I am and who I want to be and, hopefully, starting a dialogue for others to figure out how to do the same. For me, I’m trying to figure out what it means to be white with Indigenous and European ancestry because I don’t really feel as though I belong to either which begs the question, ‘who am I?’ I’ve always deeply appreciated the little Salish practices I know about but have basically no connection to the local Indigenous communities because my grandparents have either passed or are too traumatized to really speak about it. And my European ancestry is too mixed and convoluted to really make me feel a part of any one culture so I’m left with very little idea of where my family or myself came from. And perhaps I don’t need to connect with my heritage to be grounded but what should I be grounded in then? Who am I and, if I don’t know, how do I find myself? How does one become grounded when the traditional forms of grounding aren’t accessible? And this personal reflection isn’t my way of trying to justify or excuse the practice of white folx appropriating indigeneity by becoming more aware of their native ancestry but is merely how I arrived at the question and I hope my research can speak beyond this specific arrival and include the various paths that may lead others to similar questions such as myself.
Kim: What have you found out based on the research you want to do if you don’t mind me asking. I kind of wonder about them myself in relation to my daughter who is very white looking. What will “culture” look like to her? Is there any entitlement to culture? To be honest, the more I participate in the MACS program the more I also doubt myself.
Courtney: I have an intuition that the answer lies somewhere in creating a sense of community but I need to do a little more research and want to learn about the different possibilities that may exist beyond my personal assumptions. And I think this is easier for some people than others. For a while I thought my community, the place where I thought I was going to be able to find or create that ground, was in the queer community but I was met with a lot of biphobia and panphobia and was kind of ostracized from them so I’m left trying to find another community which is difficult when working and attending graduate school. I think not having anywhere to ground oneself can be a very lonely experience but I want to figure out why it seems to be so important and how we can invent it.
As to your personal experiences, I’m interested in this idea of entitlement to culture. Can you speak to this a little more?
Kim: Awww, Courtney! Nothing is worse than feeling like you knew where you would find community and finding out its not what you thought it was going to be. I know that feeling seriously! I’m sorry that happened. That makes me so sad. Gatekeeping is so f*cked up and it’s everywhere and over the dumbest stuff.
Also WOW! The more I learn about grounding the more it seems that I need to look into it! Our work actually seems to be very similar.
As for entitlement to culture it’s mostly just like the ideas around who gets access and to why they do? Like for example, people known as Koreaboos (usually nonasian) (people obsessed with Kpop and Korean celebrities) are ostracized but when Asian non Koreans are into Kpop or Korean celebrities it is accepted. I’m not advocating for either, just using it as an example. So to tie that to my children, I have my daughter who is very white looking and my son who is more asian looking and I know but also wonder even though they are the same mixed wise why will one be more accepted vs the other? Is it really just blood? Or knowing the culture? How you look?
Community can definitely be difficult and it isn’t all butterflies and rainbows which is why I really appreciate some of the conversations we’ve been having with our peers this quarter and some of the authors we’ve been introduced to, such as Joseph and Against the Romance of Community. And yes to everything you’re talking about in reference to entitlement to culture! I’ve seen Indigenous folx who look like me but were raised in the culture and talk about their struggles of not being seen or heard or understood as Indigenous by non-indigenous folx and I’m not equating myself to them or saying I in any way understand their struggles, but I think it illustrates the complexity of community. Who is in and who is out? Who gets to decide this? What are the determinants? I think about how, at one point in time, Indigenous folx hated the one drop rule and blood quantums but now actively regulate who receives assistance from the tribes based on those same stipulations. And this isn’t to say that all Indigenous folx believe this to be right or justified but I think it highlights the ways in which dominant culture expectations and white supremacist standards become hegemonic, even in cultures who may not idenitfy as white.
Kim: Oooh yes I agree. Against the Romance of Community created an amazing discussion. I remember taking classes for my Native American studies minor and this was a hot topic that was going around. There were many people that thought if you didn’t actively participate in restoring the community, you shouldn’t get money from the community. Or if you had a partner who was not a part of the tribe they couldn’t participate in events that involved the tribe even though they are a part of your family. That caused a lot of fights.
Whose story do you want to tell? Who is your audience? Why that audience and why that story?
Kim: I think my audience is other multiracial/biracial people and the parents of multiracial/biracial kids. Validation and confirmation that people care is so important and also knowing that others understand your experience is what I want people to really get out of it.
Courtney: Do you know what form your research is going to take on yet?? I could just imagine a series of like children’s books that express the roses and thorns of being biracial or multiracial and helping them understand and make sense of their experiences but I’d be interested in knowing how you imagine sharing your research!
Kim: Oh my gosh! That actually sounds so amazing! I never really thought about how it can be addressed on a non adult level in that way. I think when I have more time I would like to interview children and parents together to see what’s going on in their brains. That would be amazing.
Courtney: Whose story do I want to tell? Well, namely, mine I suppose but I really hope to broaden and generalize my journey so as to be relevant for others as well. And I suppose this generalization may seem contradictory to what I said earlier about how generalization and summarization often omit or distort the complexity of our stories, but I’m hoping to highlight the complexity of the traditional practice of grounding through my story while providing a general path or journey for others to follow in their pursuit of imaging how they might invent ground where there hasn’t been much before. I’m not wanting anyone or expecting anyone to resonate with my journey because I think it’s a relatively niche population, but I do hope to chronicle the arrival at the question of who I am, my introduction to grounding and my experience with it, and how I might re-imagine the practice to suite my specific needs. Through this, I hope to create, in some ways, an example of a how-to re-imagining of grounding. I just want to make this path a little easier for others who may share a similar experience or similar discomfort with the practice, and hope to start paving the way to a more complex understanding and operationalization of grounding.
Kim: Yeah I think I also contradicted myself by saying the majority which is the minority and then multiracial people are not the majority haha.
I really want to learn more about grounding. Do you have any recommendations on what you found helpful?
Courtney: I will share any good resources if I find them! One thing I’m kind of struggling with in my research is there are multiple definitions of “grounding” for different research fields. Like the term is used for physics to mean the neutralizing an object’s electric charge or it’s used in environmental work to be the practice of reconnecting with the Earth so it can be tricky to find but I’m happy to share as I find articles that speak to the practice I’m talking about!
My mentor used this activity below to help people get a sense of what meant a lot to them or who they understood to be important to them growing up. It can actually bring up a lot of feelings and, I think especially for those of us a little farther along in our personal journeys of unpacking, can really highlight some points of tension in our lives. For example, my family was really toxic and harmful growing up but they always tried to make holidays a happy time for my brother and I so I have a deep appreciation for commercial holidays but the social justice activist in me doesn’t really know the morality of whether or not I should enjoy them as much as I do.
Kim: I bet reaching out the librarian that specializes in MACs resources would be a good person to assist you in being able to find the proper “grounding” definitions. As for the ideas centered around commercialism, I also wonder about that. There are some things that I just really enjoy so how can I enjoy them without others thinking I’m giving into the “capitalist way”?. I love the worksheet too. I think this template would be something wonderful to share.